Sell your app or run ads in it?

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Postby Emmanuel7 » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:35 am

Arf...

At least for the moment, microsoft ads are for us residents only !

bad luck !
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Postby egyptian » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:57 am

The page can be found at:
http://www.odslabs.com/android/4EverFal ... ame=Beshoy

That's my scores :)

You're more than welcome to take some of the code that I used for setting up the formatting. Feel free to download 4Ever Fall from the market to see what it looks like in a webview.
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Postby metachris » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:32 pm

Hey guys!

Did you read this great gamasutra article about how to make money with games? It focuses mainly on flash games but imo the principles can be directly applied to android apps as well!

As i see it the main point is multiple revenue streams: In-game-ads, Homepage traffic+ads, perhaps sponsored deals, ...

I've been playing around with admob lately. It is very easy to integrate but it seems that not too many ppl are clicking the ads (1 out of 1000?)... I think the high-scores are definitely a great place to place ads as they are viewed very often and you can update them without an update of the app.
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Postby Emmanuel7 » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:37 am

Thanks Egyptian, for sharing this !

I still have some questions on this subject :
* You're using Bidvertiser and not microsoft here, why ? As you're saying Microsoft is superior ?
* Using a webview for parts of your game is nice, but how do you deal with those parts when there is no connection ? Do you use some kind of cache, or just display a dialog box saying you can submit / display the score and the score page ?
* As you used adsense at a time, do you know if one should use Adsense for mobile content instead of the regular adsense ? I don't really get what the first one add to be more 'mobile compliant'...


Thanks again for your posts,
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Postby egyptian » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:46 am

I'm using both Microsoft and BidVertiser. The better looking ones (blue) are Microsoft's while the pathetic ones are BidVertiser's lol. BidVertiser doesn't have a limit on how many of their ads are per page. I'm actually currently looking for another publishing company to replace BidVertiser with. I e-mailed AdBrite and suggested to them that they modify their ad sizes and add some that are compliant with mobile devices.

Throughout the game, I check for internet connectivity before doing anything mobile. The code that submits the score to the server checks for connectivity. If there isn't a connection, it saves the score and asks to send later. The page that displays the WebView also checks for connectivity. The score submitting code also asks the server for a response of "success". If it's not received (server is down or some other problem), it saves the score for later.

I used AdSense very briefly when I started working with ad serving. A friend of mine who was helping me set things up decided to click on a few ads one day and ended up getting my account banned. Sadly, Google isn't forgiving on that and won't allow you to serve ads ever again using their software if you get banned. What sucks is it wasn't even me that clicked!!! Their agreement states "suspicious activity" not necessarily by you! Oh well... Microsoft's coming through for me now.
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Postby Emmanuel7 » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:16 pm

How to you decide whether to use microsoft or bidvertiser ?
Every time I checking your score page I only have, I can only see the bidvertiser ones. ( perhaps I can't see the microsoft ones here, in France... )

Nice work for the connection checks !

Ps : I give you two more clicks :) ( but from 2 different IPs, and from two different days ! )
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Postby egyptian » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:07 am

lol, thanks for the clicks!

I really dislike BidVertiser and am desperately looking for someone to replace them. Their payout is horrific. I'm getting a lot of clicks on their VERY LIMITED selection of ads, and their payout is usually .04 - .05 per click... Microsoft however usually pays over a dollar per click, every click!

I would like to set up a way to have my high score system with the server and all be a service to other developers. I would like to give other developers a chance to use just a few lines of code to have the same system that I do. From there, I think I would only charge a 30% commission on ad views. This would include everything that has to do with the system -- from server hosting, maintenance, database maintenance and everything!

I think this can be very useful to set up a brand where the players know the system, are familiar with it, and are comfortable with it. 4Ever Fall has a great rating and is loved by many. I'd say it's practically a proven system and would be very beneficial (the setup of it) to other developers.

What do you guys think?

Is anyone else annoyed with this whole 24 hour refund policy? I tested this by putting out a dummy app. I purchased it for .99 cents, used myBackup to back the app up, then refunded it. I restored the backup and the app worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm wondering how many out there are using this method of buy and return... I'm wondering if Google is tracking how many returns and what they're doing to keep people from "pirating" our software...
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WARNING

Postby egyptian » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:17 pm

WARNING!!!

Microsoft adCenter will NOT pay you any money. The site I have running scores for 4Ever Fall earned quite a bit of money through Microsoft's ads and then strangely enough, after a delay of about a month (intentional I think) to pay what they owe, the account was closed. I then requested an appeal and submitted logs of alllllll the hits on the website. This was nearly a megabyte long log for three months. After two weeks, I e-mailed them and they replied immediately saying you're account is still closed. Here are some of the e-mails:

Hi Beshoy,



During standard account reviews, we found that your account has posed a significant risk to Microsoft adCenter advertisers because of actions that violated the Microsoft adCenter Publisher Pre-Release License and Service Agreement. Because keeping your account in our publisher network may financially damage our advertisers, we must disable your account. In order to protect our clients, we cannot disclose specifics that led to this action.

Please note that, under Section 11 of the Pre-Release License and Service Agreement, you will not be paid because of this violation.



If you believe that your account was closed in error, you may appeal this decision by providing the following information:

· Last 60 days of web server logs for any properties that contained Publisher ads

· Confirmation of your IP address

· Traffic sources, including third-party ad networks, affiliate programs, traffic sharing, link sharing, and webmaster tools used over the last 60 days

· Website reporting regarding performance, referrers, demographics, etc.



Best Regards,



-Harlan


Then I replied with the logs etc.

Beshoy,



Thank you for the quick replying, working with us to resolve this matter and helping us preserve the quality and integrity of our network. We’ve received your information and request for appeal and will notify you when the review is complete. Please note that the review can take up to two weeks.

You offered to provide the IP address for Bluehost.com and it would be nice to have that information.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation while your account is under review.

Have a great day!

-Harlan

Microsoft adCenter Publisher Support



Visit the adCenter Publisher Blog and Forum to find out the latest Tips, Tricks and Publisher information. Need to register for the Forum and Blog?

And their reply....
Hi Beshoy,



Microsoft adCenter Publisher Support has received your request to appeal the closure of your account. As previously stated, this investigation has concluded and your account has been closed in accordance with the Microsoft adCenter Publisher Pre-Release License and Service Agreement. This agreement is enforced to protect the advertising experience for all of our customers who currently follow fair and reasonable business practices.



While we appreciate your interest, please understand that our decision to close your account is final. Any subsequent accounts that are opened will be closed as well. Thank you for your cooperation with our decision.



Best Regards,



-Harlan

Microsoft adCenter Publisher Support



Visit the adCenter Publisher Blog and Forum to find out the latest Tips, Tricks and Publisher information. Need to register for the Forum and Blog?


And after seeing that, I couldn't just let it go because I really didn't do anything wrong... so I replied with:


Harlan,

I don't understand why my account has been closed. I don't understand why you're treating me as a threat when I have not done anything intentionally threatening. It really seems to me that when someone opens an account that has potential of earning money through your program, you close their account before you pay anything. This is not good practice and I am not even sure if it is legal. I have sent you logs proving that I all of the visits to the website are valid. I have not clicked on any of the ads myself, nor have I generated any clicks through any sort of code. I have not modified the Microsoft ad in any way other than through your control panel.

I also have an account with BidVertiser, who deleted some clicks at the end of the month due to suspicion. That to me is an honorable business who realizes that I cannot control who visits my website and what they do on it. I thought Microsoft would have a more honest business policy that doesn't rip off publishers in racking up tons of money from hits and clicks, then closing the account to keep from paying.

I worked hard to get those visits to my website and now feel as though I am being cheated out of money owed to me.

I demand an explanation and some information as to what the exact reason my account has been closed. As I see it, Microsoft owes me several hundred dollars and I may even go as far as seeking legal council on this issue.

Lastly, if this problem is not resolved in an honest manner, I will resort to spreading the word to the world about how Microsoft treats their publishers. Advertisers may also be interested in learning that Microsoft's adcenter is not honest in their business practice.


Just plain and simple, a disappointment.

DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME OR VALUABLE IMPRESSIONS WITH THEM!!!!!!

I show you this to help fellow devs keep from falling into disappointments such as this. I guess I should have known it was too good to be true.
Without God, I would not have ANY skills.
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Postby droozen » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:26 pm

Wow, that sucks. The LEAST they could have done, even if they were completely correct and you were, intentionally or not, doing something wrong or harmful, the LEAST would be to tell you exactly what the action was and what portion of their Terms and Conditions you violated.

That's just wrong.
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Postby egyptian » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:41 pm

I agree completely and feel VERY cheated out of quite a bit of money.
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Postby metachris » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:03 pm

Hey!

I'm sorry to hear that, but i wouldn't count the money lost. You probably own the money and can sue Microsoft. There have been similar issues with Google:

* http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=505255

You should definitely get advice from a lawyer.

I sure hope you get at least your money back!
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Postby ErnestoGuevara » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:04 pm

That's terrible.

Here's what you do: sue, then post the proceedings in a blog. Put a different ad network's ads in the blog and make up the lawyer's fees that way.
Search "Awesome Android Apps" in the market
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Postby ErnestoGuevara » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:47 am

I just submitted the following letter to Microsoft adcenter support at
https://support.adcenter.msn.com/eform. ... mts&scrx=1

-----------------------------------------------------

Hello,

It has come to my attention that you closed the publisher account of Beshoy XXXXX for a violation of your terms and conditions, and that you do not plan to pay him for the balance you owe him.

While I recognize your right to do so for accounts that violate your terms, I find it horrifying that you will not tell him what the violation was, even after he sent you all of his logs and related information for the period in question.

As a result, I will not participate in your ad network.

-----------------------------------------------------

Perhaps other developers would like to do the same.
Search "Awesome Android Apps" in the market
http://www.awesomeandroidapps.com
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Postby egyptian » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:09 pm

Wow,

Thank you guys so much for the support! I really do appreciate it and am happy to see android developers come together against big companies such as this.

I am now trying to get admob to work with the website and am having to place more ads to make up for the loss. I'm really starting to like admob though; especially with their real-time dashboard!!!!!

I will have to look into the possibility of taking Microsoft to court. A friend of mine is telling me it's really not that bad and since they won't provide me with a reason for closing the account, then they may really be trying to rip me off. I can't believe that a company like Microsoft would do this though.

I will keep you guys posted on how well admob does. I was really happy last night to find out that I can put admob ad links in my site through php (curl) rather than having to wait till the next update I push out for the game. I didn't think I could before, but now I see that I can. and bw.. that real-time dashboard is just plain AWESOME!
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Postby ErnestoGuevara » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:19 pm

I do like the real-time dashboard a lot. If you're into that sort of thing, check out Mojiva. I haven't actually put up their ads, but the dashboard looks ultra-slick.

Mind you, I prefer adsense's real-time-if-you-refresh dashboard, just because they give me so much more money per click.
Search "Awesome Android Apps" in the market
http://www.awesomeandroidapps.com
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